Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:31 Hi, I'm Elise
Speaker 2 00:00:33 And I'm, I'm not Matt I'm laws.
Speaker 1 00:00:37 And welcome to pod RAs, a star Trek, deep space, nine podcast. If this is your first time joining us, we're two friends watching star Trek, deep space nine, and sharing both our deep and irreverent thoughts on our favorite star Trek series.
Speaker 2 00:00:50 This week, we're talking about season three, episode three, the house of Clark teleplay by Ronald D. Moore and direct by Les Lando. This episode added on October 10th, 1994.
Speaker 1 00:01:02 This week on deep space, nine after co lies about killing a clinging on in his bar, the dead man's widow of Duck's cork to the cling on home world to marry him. That sounds wild. So this, this week, Matt <laugh> this week, Matt is unable to join us, but we have friend of the pod laws filling in. Hi.
Speaker 2 00:01:23 Hi. I apologize for not being met. Um, I'm I'll do my best to fit in. I'm not gonna try a Canadian accent though.
Speaker 1 00:01:31 <laugh> I don't think that religion's gonna come, come up on this episode. So we, I don't know that you'll be able to flex like your matte skills or anything.
Speaker 2 00:01:40 Uh, I could try, I could try my out for a spin. It's been a while
Speaker 1 00:01:46 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:01:46 Oh, it does come up though. Actually it does
Speaker 1 00:01:49 Come up like math, like math skills anyway.
Speaker 2 00:01:52 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:01:56 So in usual, um, pod race, fashion. I don't know. I couldn't come up with that word. Um, this is where you have to ask me if I remember the episode.
Speaker 2 00:02:07 <laugh> all right. Okay. Uh, Elise, do you remember this episode?
Speaker 1 00:02:13 <laugh> I do a hundred percent. Remember this episode? Um, GRCA is my number two clinging on hot after wharf's X in T and G.
Speaker 2 00:02:23 Uh, yeah, she's fantastic. Um, I don't remember, uh, war sex that much. Therefore girl, Chris, my number one. Um, fair. And actually, uh, so the actor, Mary Kay Adams was also a, a recurring role on Babylon five as the sort of aid to Jaar Netta. And she was like a warrior woman on Babylon five as well, under lots of prosthetics. So, uh,
Speaker 1 00:02:48 That's fun. I was actually, um, I was re I was gonna say this later, but I was reading on memory alpha that Mary Kay Adams said that she really enjoyed working with Armen because he was so, um, supportive. So for example, you know, the Frankie have all that, all the prosthetics and everything on their face. And he said to her, if you feel this disoriented in any way, like that's normal, I go through it all the time. And he just like, was very kind about it and said that he would like help her through. And it just seemed like really nice. And she felt very cared for working on the series, cuz it's not easy to be a guest star.
Speaker 2 00:03:29 No. And I think that's the, that's the sort of thing you hear about Armin all the time, right? Like he would always, he would always get all of the forge together to, um, to run their lines together. He would have like evenings together with all of them. Um, I he's just such a heart and soul of the show, uh, in, in a way that is remarkable for, for a theoretically or potentially awkward and problematic race and character. Um, his humanizing of it is in incre or rinky out now. I dunno, I dunno what the appropriate ver there is, but, uh, it's such a fantastic way he performs.
Speaker 1 00:04:07 And he, I think he said that it was one of his favorite episodes yeah. Of the series too. I am convinced that this episode is a romantic comedy and I cannot be convinced otherwise, although in my version they would've gotten together at the end. Um, I feel like it's almost like an enemy to lover slash friends
Speaker 2 00:04:28 Situ um, no spoilers for future deep space, nine episodes
Speaker 1 00:04:33 <laugh> but I mean this far <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:04:36 Yeah, yeah. I mean, but girl could, does come back later on in like series four or five, I think. I can't
Speaker 1 00:04:42 Remember. Yeah. I think it's five. I, I re I looked it up before we started. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:47 Um, but yes, no, it was, it was absolutely that like, uh, forced by circumstances to get, to have an arranged marriage and can they learn to appreciate each other's talent and grow together
Speaker 1 00:05:00 There it's, they're tropes that I genuinely love, like this is one of my favorite episodes of the series.
Speaker 2 00:05:07 It's great. It's a great episode. It just, it's just a lot of fun and a lot of heart in it. And even though it's silly, it sort of takes the silliness seriously, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um, yeah, I agree. So it doesn't feel cheap.
Speaker 1 00:05:22 Um, I did really enjoy the bit that one scene where Kira was like talking with, um, Cisco and Zach and O'Brien comes in and Kira just doesn't understand human customs regarding like gender conversation and like privacy. And I just love that. Kira just doesn't give a shit about gender that like really made me happy. <laugh> she's like, basically, like that sounds like some human shit. Like that's basically what she was saying.
Speaker 2 00:05:52 I think it's a fair point. I wonder whether it's more, less a human shit thing and more a, a mild thing, because I suspect that, uh, after however many shuttle rides with Julian talking her ear off about whatever random crap, and daks constantly talking about whoever she's eating, she just assumes that
Speaker 1 00:06:13 Everyone's chatty this
Speaker 2 00:06:14 Horny molecule fam family that, that they have. It's just, uh,
Speaker 1 00:06:18 <laugh> uh, this whole episode was horny. I, it was, there were like a lot of things that happened that I will get into. Maybe mm-hmm <affirmative> in a later section. Um, there, this episode also has one of my favorite, um, line reads of like the whole series GRCA screaming enter husband is like the best thing I ever saw. It's like, like she owns him and love it. <laugh> just making
Speaker 2 00:06:55 She she's very commanding is great. And, um, yeah, I, um, there's another line that you've mentioned later that, that that will come, that will come up later, I think. Oh, just a phenomenal, phenomenal set of line raise. You can tell that they had, um, uh, Mary and, um, and arm and just had so much fun doing
Speaker 1 00:07:15 That. Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 00:07:17 And so the, the, and then you've got goon, of course. So almost every line goon comes up with is phenomenal. He, that man makes choices.
Speaker 1 00:07:28 I was, um, I read that this is the only episode where goon is on the show, but Wolf isn't
Speaker 2 00:07:35 Right.
Speaker 1 00:07:36 Which would make sense cuz we is off doing other things right now
Speaker 2 00:07:42 Is he's
Speaker 1 00:07:43 Given his leave maybe.
Speaker 2 00:07:45 Yeah. So, um, next gen finished at the end of season two. Right? Right. Yeah. So this is the first, this is we're three episodes cuz they like blow up the, uh, galaxy class Starship on purpose just to one up. Um, and then yeah, then you've got, this is the third episode subsequent to that. And so this is occurring between, is this occurring around the time, time as generations then?
Speaker 1 00:08:09 Um, no. Cause isn't that?
Speaker 2 00:08:12 Cause I think first contact,
Speaker 1 00:08:14 He gets promoted in generations and I don't remember like at the beginning at that ceremony at sea and I'm trying to remember where that fell.
Speaker 2 00:08:26 So I think cuz cuz first contact now we're we're way off the map on the episode discussion, but I
Speaker 1 00:08:31 Also feel like Matt would just know the answers.
Speaker 2 00:08:34 Yeah, that's true. So first contact is the, is the uniform change and the uniform change happens between seasons four and five of DS nine. So I think, I think generations is either is at some point this season I
Speaker 1 00:08:49 Think. Right. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:08:51 I think he's in a relationship with Deanna at the moment.
Speaker 1 00:08:54 Yeah. I don't know. I feel like after the show it was ambiguous at the end of the show for me. Right. Anyway,
Speaker 2 00:09:00 Anyway, more and Wolf later <laugh> when we talk about click ons.
Speaker 1 00:09:05 Yes. Um, there was another thing that, that really made me laugh about this at the opening of the episode is that co basically gives like an in world a last time on deep space, nine. That's true. Um, and it was just really funny that like you didn't have to watch the previous two episode, you just got summed up for you.
Speaker 2 00:09:26 It's um, yeah. It's almost like um, oh crikey, what's the character in an man who does the really, really fast recaps of um,
Speaker 1 00:09:35 Oh I know the actor it's uh, Michael Pena. Michael pen. I don't remember the character's name.
Speaker 2 00:09:42 Yeah. But yeah, it's that sort of like slightly comedy, uh, slanted take, not, not major Barretts sort of, uh, you know, not isolated, but you know, I mean, um,
Speaker 1 00:09:56 Yeah like a narration
Speaker 2 00:09:57 Narration. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:09:58 Love. It was fun. I love Michael Penya doing that by the way. It's so
Speaker 2 00:10:03 I just can't believe they haven't done a Michael Pena sums up the entire history of uh, the MTU to date.
Speaker 1 00:10:11 I would read that novel by the way. <laugh> just like in his point of view, like I just like feel like he would have so many of the details and correct that it would be really funny
Speaker 2 00:10:23 The him, um, and Evangeline Lily lip syncing to him and Paul rod lip syncing to him doing that. I think Inman of the was is, is great. So hopefully we get both more of that in quantum mania.
Speaker 1 00:10:35 That would be fun. They haven't rewatched that film in a while. That's good. Um, <laugh> I just wanted to say one other thing before we moved on, um, to our a and B plots. I really liked, even though it was really just like one like external shot and then like a couple internals, like I really enjoyed the stats on Cronos. The, um, they were really smoky and foggy and like the, the decoration, the decor was very imperialistic looking like it just looked really well done. And I, I thought it was really good.
Speaker 2 00:11:11 Yeah. The whole of Cronos is a red light district.
Speaker 1 00:11:14 <laugh> I've never been my mom
Speaker 2 00:11:17 Left
Speaker 1 00:11:17 <laugh> when she was like 20 to like Amsterdam and
Speaker 2 00:11:23 Sorry, I thought you were saying your mom went to Cronos and I was like, did she
Speaker 1 00:11:27 <laugh> impressive. No, she went to Amsterdam. Right. Um, but that was so long ago. So it's probably
Speaker 2 00:11:34 Different now. Uh, I was in Amsterdam a couple years ago for work. I was having to go every, every week or so for two or three days, uh, there are still significantly public and, and visible gridlock districts, which is fine because no, I didn't sex work is work.
Speaker 1 00:11:50 I didn't mean like that change. I just meant like a city's gonna change in, in yes. 50 years. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:11:57 For sure. For sure.
Speaker 1 00:11:59 Um, but yeah, so those were really fun sets.
Speaker 2 00:12:03 Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Completely agree. It was
Speaker 1 00:12:05 Great. So it kind of separated the episode into like the, a plot to me was Colay of Klingons and the VLO was, um, KCO and miles. So Brian, so I figure we can talk about KCO and miles first or
Speaker 2 00:12:21 Yeah, for
Speaker 1 00:12:21 Sure. Whichever you prefer,
Speaker 2 00:12:23 Let's go with, let's go with, uh, the blot first, I think. Um, uh it's so I've read a couple of things about this, which is that, um, the reason why they were one of the reasons why they moved Rosen chow off the show as much, um, and moved her to Bejo at the end of this is that they wanted to explore miles and Julian's relationship more and as a massive fan of the relationship between miles and Julian, I'm kind of okay with that. The other thing is, and, and we say this every time I come on the pod, is that why aren't Mar Julian friends yet? This is the first episode like apparent. So again, I was reading this on, on memory app alpha, this is the first episode they properly start being friends. So you had things like the storyteller, uh, where, where they're obviously paired up together, but this is the first time where Julian doesn't project himself into the situation, miles asks for his opinion. And then Julian gives really good advice. And, um, and, uh, anyway, I like jumping a little bit ahead, but, uh,
Speaker 1 00:13:32 No, but you're you're right. Like they, they had been getting friendlier since the last time. I think the, the last, um, epi miles and Julian episode, you weren't on. And I feel like Matt and I were like, where's laws. He needs to be here for this conversation. Um, but yeah, so I do feel like it's been growing, but you're right. Miles was working on that one thing, which we get into and like you, he hands the pad to Julian and asks him what he thinks and the up until now it's been ju Julian trying to be friends with miles. Yeah. And miles being like, and grumpy about it. But this is the first time he's like reciprocating.
Speaker 2 00:14:11 Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. It's
Speaker 1 00:14:14 You love? It's really great. Um, you know what, you also really love to see, um, CAOs, bangs and long hair. I don't know why, but I am so into it. Um, probably cuz like the nineties are kind of in right now, but
Speaker 2 00:14:30 Do you think she trimmed it with light little Bon? I scissors, like she Chis the little that we
Speaker 1 00:14:35 <laugh> probably like she has a mirror and she just like got bored of the tree and
Speaker 2 00:14:41 Very precision
Speaker 1 00:14:41 And who thanks. So K O's forced not, not forced, but KCO decides that she needs to close the school because there's literally only two students left who, but she's willing to tutor them. Mm. Um, and she's very visibly upset and depressed over it. So that's pretty much the, um, the catalyst for the, this plot.
Speaker 2 00:15:03 Yeah. Yeah. It's I do think it's like weird that he walks in and she's like, well, well not at school, close to school. And like, apparently didn't talk to Cisco or wrong about it. Um, to me, like, which is fine. It's a, it's a good example of the fact. And they've, they have actually seated this and shown this a few times in the last couple of seasons that actually the two of them aren't great at communicating with each other. Yeah. But they clearly love each other, but their, their communication skills could do with a little bit of work. Um, yeah. And I think that is a development that happens in this episode. Right. It's not perfect.
Speaker 1 00:15:46 Yeah. I think so. Uh, it's so funny, like her reaction to this and the way not the sadness and the depression, cuz I, that I really mm-hmm resonated with, but the fact that she like does barely tells him mm. Is so foreign to me, like my partner, would've gotten a call in the middle of the day with me, like crying and telling them that I had to close the school like that. Yeah. I would've interrupted their day to tell them that <laugh> and like it's just very different from me.
Speaker 2 00:16:17 Yeah. She, I mean, she's like, he's like, are you okay? And she being clearly not okay. Is like, I'm okay. It's all fine. And it's like, yeah. I mean, please see a therapist. <laugh> don't have your, there's no counselor on the station at this point.
Speaker 1 00:16:34 Right. Um, and I, it is really sweet how miles wants to cheer her up and he's, he's making her that romantic dinner and I really do love when they're being romantic together. Um, it's I don't even remember when I wrote oh yeah. So like, yeah. So I love that he's making this nice dinner for her, but like that's also not gonna fix the problem. Mm. Um, you know, it's nice once in a while to have nice things done, but like that's not gonna, and this is basically the advice Julian gives him later anyway, like that's not gonna fix the root of the problem. You're just putting bandaids on things.
Speaker 2 00:17:12 Exactly. And I think, um, and I mean, I don't think they quite get to the root of the problem, which for me, the root of the problem is that they don't communicate very well to each other. So they, they know each other pretty well, but, um, miles keeps going around trying to fix K O's problems for her. And it kind of works
Speaker 1 00:17:32 Extend, he's an engineer,
Speaker 2 00:17:34 He is an engineer and he wants to fix it. And he's a man and he wants to fix things. <laugh> right. <laugh> so I think, I think I don't I'm, I don't think it's outta character, but it's just a little bit from both sides. I don't think they communicate very well. He, his, his, his, um, they're very cute. And miles being like, I'm married to the most wonderful woman in the galaxy day and it's in irregular holiday. It can come up sometimes, even twice at the week. Yeah. Um, if it is cute, but it's also like it's reactive to the situation. Yeah. It's not an actual, you know, random act of, of kindness. It feels it's trying
Speaker 1 00:18:11 Fix it. It feels forced. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I was, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:18:16 I don't wanna be too down on it because it is cute and it is fun and, and it resolves in the end, but it, it does, it feels like it centers miles a lot. It doesn't really feel like it centers KCO as much.
Speaker 1 00:18:27 Yeah. Cause the whole time we're seeing miles try to fix the problem without her input.
Speaker 2 00:18:33 Yeah. Without actually talking to her about it. And it only at the end when he actually starts talking to her and even then he says, he, he basically fixes the problem. Right. He says, I found you this job on Bejo. He doesn't say, you know, look, this isn't working for, for you. And therefore it's not working for us. He doesn't say, you know, I've heard about this job on be, would you like to apply for it? He's done all of this research first, which is, I dunno. I feel like I'm, I'm coming across way more down on this than, I mean to, because I do like it. I understand
Speaker 1 00:19:04 It did feel a little bit, um, patronizing. Yeah. But I also felt that in the end, he, he didn't say like I put in your application. So I gave him like the tiniest bit of credit. Um, but yeah, like I just was really happy that he went to Julian and talked to him and then Julian, just at first it felt out of character. <laugh> like Julian giving this like really good advice. Um, but, and Julian's exactly right. You can't take someone's like life, career or profession and take that away from them and give them like, oh, semi-related hobby. Like that's not going to be fulfilling.
Speaker 2 00:19:47 Yeah. And
Speaker 1 00:19:48 For those of us that are even lucky enough to be fulfilled by <laugh> their
Speaker 2 00:19:52 Job, no comment. Um, yeah. Um, no, I agree. And, and he's, and I think it's actually worse. Right? I think, I think people could change jobs. They can change careers. They can change vocations even. And clearly there was a decision made by them as a couple to move to duke space nine and, and everyone was aware of the potential impact that would have, but equally it's been more than two years now and feelings change and, and circumstances change and it, and they just need to talk to each other about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:20:23 I mean, even when he brought it, when he brings it up to her, she's like, but we decided we were gonna do this. You know, like she doesn't even, she's being rigid even though she's unhappy and he wants her to not be unhappy. So it's like obvious to us that he wants to give her options. And she's like not seeing the big picture because of the promises that they had made to each other.
Speaker 2 00:20:47 Yeah. Yeah. And, and she's being, and, and you can see where this goes, right. If they, if this doesn't happen, it just goes into resentment and an absolute breakdown of, of the relationship. Uh, and it's, it was kind of going that way until they're, they're forced to, to, to confront this. Um, but yeah, but, but, but I particularly just, I, I completely agree about the way Julian does it is that he, he says it to miles. Both of them act a little bit outta a character, which is that miles asks Julian's opinion, which he doesn't normally do. And Julian is self deprecating about the way he gives the opinion, but it is very clear and direct and accurate and helpful, uh, in the way he delivers, which is Julian does occasionally do this. Like he can, he can be a bit of a sexist asshole, but he does have a tendency to come to pull it all together in a clutch, like in, in the, my universe episode, you know, you started with him being obnoxious to Kira. But when, when, when, you know, when things hit the fan, Julian pulls things together and does very well, which is one of the reasons why I love him because you want, you don't want that character to just be a bumbling, obnoxious bassoon, because then you just don't wanna spend any time with them. So
Speaker 1 00:22:06 The, yeah. Then they're not worth it and they're not charming and
Speaker 2 00:22:09 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:22:10 It's not amusing.
Speaker 2 00:22:12 Yeah. But Hey, um, anyway, they, they, they managed to, they, they go in the middle with, um, miles trying to fix it by getting her an arboreum, where she goes to Cisco about. And Julian's perfectly well again, in another episode of many great line deliveries, Julian's whole like, um, in my experience, you know, kind words and, uh, and a smile can get you a couple of hours. Some flowers can get you a couple of days and Aita, that must be worth at least two months. It's, it's a wonderful delivery.
Speaker 1 00:22:50 And it was so funny. Um, it was, but it, I liked the way, it just talked about the analogy of like, you're just giving her a gift that you're not giving. You're not, you know, it's like your idea of what she should be doing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:07 Not
Speaker 1 00:23:07 Even, not even like your idea of what she should be doing, your idea with the limited resources you have of what she's should be doing.
Speaker 2 00:23:15 <laugh>. Yeah. And he does it in such a way that is slightly deprecating to himself. And, but, but cushions the blow for what is a, a, a tough thing for miles to confront, which is that he's just trying to fix things without actually, um, addressing, as you say, addressing the root of the problem. Uh, it's a really good scene. It's a really good scene.
Speaker 1 00:23:35 I, I feel strong. I feel strongly that CACO never finds out about the art arboreum. Yeah. Yeah. And that is my hope because she doesn't need to like, maybe in like 20 years, he could be like, oh yeah. Remember that time I was trying to come up with anything to help you and then tell her. Yeah. But, um, I think it would just make her mad
Speaker 2 00:23:58 <laugh> yeah, I agree. I agree. Uh, but it's very true. Like it, I, I think it's a really good, I think it's one of those things, these things that DS nine does that is that, that the other star Trek shows to date hadn't done is shows the challenges of living and moving to a station, shows the challenges of basically being in a war zone and how that impacts civilians and civilian life. Because really everything on the enterprise where they met is, you know, is pretty idyllic and utopian, uh, U not idyllic, not UIC. I dunno what I was talking about that <laugh> trying,
Speaker 1 00:24:35 You're just making up your own language, makeup.
Speaker 2 00:24:37 Yeah. That's what I do. Um, um, it moves episode to episode and everything's resolved and everyone's a happy family and you have captain Picard day and, and it's, it's, it's very, it's, it's fun to watch, but it, it, it is not, doesn't feel very real. They don't address challenges like this human challenges. And, um, and they do hear, um,
Speaker 1 00:25:01 You, um, you, you saying happy family made me sing. We're a happy family by the Ramones. I don't know if you know that song. Um,
Speaker 2 00:25:11 Yes. It's um, <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:25:14 Yeah, so that's, that's where my mind goes, but
Speaker 2 00:25:21 Yeah. Anyway, they, um, they, uh, they finally actually have a conversation in the bar at Quas where KCO is randomly having a go at the DBA girls. I don't particularly know why other than an intro to the conversation, miles finally says,
Speaker 1 00:25:40 Look, well, I thought she was getting not understanding why people are gambling. I thought she was being like, don't these people get sick of gambling, but she didn't use the word gambling, but like, I think that's what she was criticizing.
Speaker 2 00:25:52 Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. Um, but anyway, yeah. <laugh> they finally, they finally talk miles finally says, look, I don't think you're happy. He forces the issue, which is right to do because she wasn't going to, and, um, they're able to then have an honest conversation about what's working and what's not working. They're able to potentially plot a root forward. I don't think it solves all of their problems, but I think it's a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1 00:26:22 Yeah. I agree.
Speaker 2 00:26:23 Good job. Good job us. Sum it up as well. Okay. And also, uh, yes. Julian is a good boy. Well done, Julian. Good boy.
Speaker 1 00:26:32 He was so proud of him. <laugh> I even explained to my mom what he did in this episode that made me proud of him.
Speaker 2 00:26:39 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:26:39 Um, I don't think she cared, even though she loves this show, but she was like, okay, least.
Speaker 2 00:26:45 What's your surprise. Given that 50 years ago, she went to Kronos.
Speaker 1 00:26:49 That's true. <laugh> I just, when they said Colay of cl on like flare Clingons, I just, it just was very mother of drags to me.
Speaker 2 00:27:01 Oh God. Yeah. Or
Speaker 1 00:27:05 Like king Slayer or something. It just made me think of game of
Speaker 2 00:27:09 Throne. It's a good game of Thrones title. Slay of Clingons yes. Clinging on Slayer cling clinging Slayer.
Speaker 1 00:27:16 Yes. Clinging Slayer. Oh my gosh. That is a little bit of a mouthful though. Clinging. Yes. It's lot. <laugh> um, so there's a Klingon dude named Kozac that accidentally, uh, dies in Clark's bar. And then Clark realizes that people cannot look away from a train wreck. So he tells this like, ridiculous story about how he killed the guy and solves defense, uh, to drum up bar business. And it's just so Frankie and I love it. And it's such a, what a smart businessman.
Speaker 2 00:27:50 <laugh> he's so, um, he's so opportunistic, right? He's basically getting depressed that no, one's in his bar apart from mourn and the drunk cl on who hasn't got any money anyway. Um
Speaker 1 00:28:01 <laugh> yeah. He wanted a credit.
Speaker 2 00:28:03 He wanted credit and um, yeah, there's a, there's a, a rule of acquisition, which is when mourn leaves it's all over. Um, or something like that. I can't actually remember the very final shot of deep space nine, but it feels like a perfect way to finish deep space. Nine would've been have mourn leaves the station or
Speaker 1 00:28:24 Something. Oh, I would've liked that. Yeah. That's really funny. He's uh, Armon is, so we talked about this already, but Armon is so good in this episode. Um, there's that scene where it was at Odo was telling him like all the bad things that like Kozak does. And he's just like, well, he was bound to get himself killed eventually anyway, or something like that. And I'm just, it's so funny. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:28:47 And he is not wrong. Like that guy was a walking death way, but
Speaker 1 00:28:51 Yeah, like everything that the Frankie does, like the Frankie people do is like, so my humor, I mean, don't get me wrong. There are problematic things that we have not gotten to yet. Um, and some that we've seen already and many of them, but like this little stuff where they like, just show them doing like capitalism, like it, oh, it always anything that's sat that's like satirical about capitalism is like my favorite sense of humor like that is, which is like bad because obviously people are actually suffering, um, under it. But like at the same time, like making fun of it, it just amuses me.
Speaker 2 00:29:35 It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because certainly the Fe Enge as, uh, cause they were like first season villains in NextGen, right? Yeah. Um, and they, they were a lot harsh, harsher, then they were a lot less comic, uh, relief and, and therefore they were a little bit more of a scathing Saara of capitalism, which now they're like a little bit a, oh, isn't capitalism silly. Ha ha ha ha. Which, which, which blunts the blunts. The Satara a bit, but I don't really care because I love qu and I love arming and it, and, and I like some of the others as well.
Speaker 1 00:30:10 I think the reason why it works for me is because in those early T and G episodes, they kind of made the, for rainy, very bumbling and not as intelligent, like they didn't, they usually got foil. Like they usually were foiled. Yeah. And so this works for me because they win sometimes.
Speaker 2 00:30:31 Yeah. I think that's a really good point. And, and they win because of their intelligence, but in this case, yeah. I mean, again, jumping ahead slightly, but in this case, the qu wins by not being forge right. By being brave, like the, the, the forge call is to run away and when given the opportunity and he chooses not to, and I think it's, I've started, I don't have this fully formed, so this will be what part one in a, in a continuing series of laws tries to work out what's going on with qu. But I feel like there's a, there's something about qu about how he's an outsider, both in terms of, on the station, but also to Farge society and how he plays himself up as a Farge like he, in ways that you don't see actually RO or nog or, or, or actually many of the other farers you, you see maybe the NAS, but, um, he plays up the sort of like the misogyny and the cut, your wages to zero and, and stuff in a way that feels like he's trying to overcompensate that, that whether it's being away from Fingar, he feels like he's missing something or whether he feels like he's actually not that much.
Speaker 2 00:31:50 Like the other FGE, you know, he has, he wants to be a bar owner. He, you know, yes, he has all his schemes of getting richer, but he never wants to not have the bar. He wants to talk to people. He wants people to think, well, of him, he wants respect, which comes up a few times in this episode. Yeah. And I do think it's, it's really interesting if you look at, at him Odo to an extent Wolff, to an extent on NextGen, as well as outsiders to their own culture, because they do not.
Speaker 1 00:32:19 Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2 00:32:20 They do not live in and around it. They are, they're sort of isolated in someone else's culture. Um,
Speaker 1 00:32:27 So again, I, I, can, I see that, um, for sure,
Speaker 2 00:32:31 Because I think whaf does it a bit as well. I think you see, whaf kind of thinking kind of almost being a fundamentalist clinging on like trying to overdo the, the honor and the, the right way to do things. Yeah. Because all the other Clingons we meet are way more fun than Wolf basically. Yeah. They they're all, and they're all
Speaker 1 00:32:53 Read about, I mean, he basically read about it in a textbook,
Speaker 2 00:32:56 So yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, and again like that, that's, that's not a, a criticism because it's not, not unreasonable when you, when you're brought up by that to have to try and learn that way. Um, I wonder,
Speaker 1 00:33:11 Sorry.
Speaker 2 00:33:13 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:33:13 I wonder, I wonder if they were trying to say something similar, like in this episode we find out that war, that war, that, um, co and Ram's dad isn't alive anymore. And I don't know that we, something that we knew beforehand mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, and it kind of makes me wonder if part of that is the fact that maybe they didn't have a father for a long time, or there could be some, because their society is so misogynistic that maybe they did grow up a little bit differently, so he could be overcompensating
Speaker 2 00:33:48 Well, but also I think he's overcompensating because they don't think he is actually the same as the other forge. Right. So he's no, no,
Speaker 1 00:33:56 I
Speaker 2 00:33:56 Agree. He's, he's trying to pass almost, right. Like he's right. He's, he's, uh, like I don't wanna overdo this analogy, but like he's closet he's closeted and he is overperforming masculinity, so that he doesn't have to, to confront who he truly is, which is, which is a Frankie, but not, not, not in a, in the same way. And I think obviously the impact that his mother had on his life, um, I don't how many movie episodes have we had so far?
Speaker 1 00:34:29 I don't know that we've had, I don't
Speaker 2 00:34:31 Remember if we met one yet. We haven't met. So we, if we haven't met his mother yet, his mother is, uh, is again a phenomenal character, a phenomenal performance as well.
Speaker 1 00:34:40 Is she as wonderful? Yes.
Speaker 2 00:34:42 Yeah. And, um, and she, she plays such a, a key role, uh, in, in who Clark is and setting that standard for him, which is different from other Feki. Anyway,
Speaker 1 00:34:55 I'm trying to find out when she pops in, but I don't disagree with you, although I, about the, the closeted ness, but I would say it's more his, his sexuality than the masculine feminine, like I, I think,
Speaker 2 00:35:10 Oh yeah. I don't think
Speaker 1 00:35:11 He's open to all, uh, types of, uh, sex <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:35:14 Oh, he, he, he is. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:35:17 Um, no, like I agree with you, but also, like, I think it's just like, he's bisexual <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:35:24 No, I, I, yeah, I, I think we can claim, uh, qu is one of us. Um, I, I meant more as a comparison to, to a, a qualitative. No,
Speaker 1 00:35:33 I know.
Speaker 2 00:35:34 Anyway, anyway, I know it's, it's a poorly thought out idea, but, uh, but we will see how it develops over. Uh <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:35:40 No, I think it's interesting. Even if it turns out to, you know, get unproven, it's still interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:35:47 But it just shows what a great job Armen did in, uh, in three, you know, three dimensionalizing, whatever the right phrase is for the character who could be, so who could have been so too dimensional who could have just been yeah. A, a, a joke character. And I think the work that him and his interactions with Renee and with Avery in the first season, particularly do such a good job of establishing the subtlety of the character and the fact that he just cares so much, what other people think about him and he just cares. So,
Speaker 1 00:36:25 And I, yeah, I would even add his interactions with D
Speaker 2 00:36:29 Yeah. Yeah. And they go, they get better and better as well though. Those interactions
Speaker 1 00:36:33 Had one, um, there was an episode where Dax was like, I forget which episode it was, but he, she was supposed to, it was like some, someone, some, a trail guy came to like, do like an internship with her to find
Speaker 2 00:36:47 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:36:48 Like a good, if he they'd be a good host. And there's a lot of her interactions with quirk, they were playing, um,
Speaker 2 00:36:55 To
Speaker 1 00:36:56 A game that I, yes, they were playing Togo. And like, it was just fun to see her like, hang with the guys. Yes. Because that is something that she did a lot as her on. And so like, it obviously is important to her. So it's nice to see her get to do that and like quirk flirts with her. And, but also like they're friends and he cares about her.
Speaker 2 00:37:20 I agree. I agree. She, he flirts with her and she flirts back with him because that's, oh,
Speaker 1 00:37:24 Totally. It's definitely both ways,
Speaker 2 00:37:27 You know, uh, Dax flirts with everyone. Um, yeah. And the only person who jealous,
Speaker 1 00:37:32 That's why she's wonderful.
Speaker 2 00:37:33 Yeah. And that's the, the only person who's truly jealous of Dax flirting with anyone else is Kira
Speaker 1 00:37:39 <laugh>. Hmm. Interesting
Speaker 2 00:37:42 For now. We'll see that changes that does change later.
Speaker 1 00:37:46 So I, one thing I would say that I really like about this episode is it talks a little bit about thing on death rituals, from the sense of like you wanna die with honor. Um, and how important that is. And like, I'm kind of really into learning different groups, death rituals, like Kons obviously need to have an honorary honorable death for engi. They like sell their parts of them to people and, uh, Jews like myself, um, sit shva and I just think it's so interesting to see like what everyone does.
Speaker 2 00:38:25 I think the cling on honorable death thing. I mean, obviously there was a lot of Orientalism with Clingons in original series, but to me it feels more like a Viking thing. Like if you die back or you go to Val,
Speaker 1 00:38:38 Go to Velo. Yeah. I, I watch, um, the last kingdom is one of my favorite shows and that's something that like comes up all the time in that show. So I definitely, I run it that way as well.
Speaker 2 00:38:52 Um, yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. It's very fascinating. Um, it, you, you mentioned it in notes and it just reminded me. There's an episode of Babylon five where, uh, Ivanova sits shiver. And, um, if you do not know Babylon five and you do not know Ivan, uh, she would be one of your favorite characters. I feel <laugh>, she's the, the sec, she is very like Kira in that she's the second in command of the station. Uh, although she's human, um, not alien in this case and she's extremely spiky and, um, fun and bisexual.
Speaker 1 00:39:26 I am, if not
Speaker 2 00:39:28 Fully gay, she might be fully gay. I'm not sure
Speaker 1 00:39:32 I'm only partial gay,
Speaker 2 00:39:33 Fully gay. Good grief. What on earth? Just keep that in and drag me for it please.
Speaker 1 00:39:43 <laugh> um, she's hot. I'm looking at a photo. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:39:53 Anyway, GRCA
Speaker 1 00:39:57 GRCA
Speaker 2 00:39:57 GRCA is like kid kids sake. I was looking for a way to just drag us back, but you were like smooth, someone's a professional
Speaker 1 00:40:06 <laugh> I'm so professional. So Kok, widow GRCA shows up. Um, and I love that she she's so smart after threatening court for two seconds. She realizes there's no way this guy killed my husband. <laugh> oh, it's so funny.
Speaker 2 00:40:24 Sh her outfits, whoever did the clothing on this episode, the costuming, I should say her outfits are all incredible. Like she turns up and it's just this hooded presence. You can't see her face at all. Yeah. Uh, it's an incredible cloak, uh, a well directed, really interesting direction on it as well. And then, and Clark is just like, depends. Who's asking <laugh> they're like immediately flirty as well. Um, when they basically,
Speaker 1 00:40:53 She basically just looks like Gand off in the two, two hours, like when yeah,
Speaker 2 00:40:57 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:40:58 Yeah. When they're like, who's this dude in white <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:41:02 Uh, except she has a freaking cool dagger instead of, uh, a star.
Speaker 1 00:41:07 Oh my God. That was
Speaker 2 00:41:08 Fabulous. She, she basically, uh, she, she takes, takes her down, looks amazing. A pulls, a dagger out and says defend yourself. And it very awesome and hot <laugh> we like, we like broken.
Speaker 1 00:41:22 Yes. Um, although I have questions about how she's able to kidnap him off the station, um, you would think logistically that they would have some sort of like security checks in place that you can't just like randomly teleport people off at the station.
Speaker 2 00:41:41 Um, did they teleport them off or do they go to like a, oh shit. I can't remember. Do they go to a shop? There was a teleport
Speaker 1 00:41:48 Station. It was a tele. Yeah. It was a teleportation ums. It feels like it was just an easier way to not have like a scene where they were running or something. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:41:57 Yeah. I guess it's a weird one. Isn't it like unauthorized teleporting, but how do you, how do you like presuming teleporting is needed for a, for the running of the station, then it needs to be open. I dunno.
Speaker 1 00:42:11 Yeah. Cause they use it to get people to stick, pay all the time.
Speaker 2 00:42:14 Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you're right. It, it is a bit like, yeah. I, I guess the question is whether Odo was like, eh, he absolutely lied about this and he absolutely deserves was coming to him. And I look forward to hearing him tell the story about it later.
Speaker 1 00:42:31 <laugh> that's funny. I love that. Um, that's really funny. Okay. So there's a lot of fit plot here with regard to like what happens, but like the TLDR is that if Kozac died in an accident, like in a non honorable way with no male air, the then, um, they might say, oh, this is a special situation. And then it's possible possible that GRCA could be head of the house if he died honorably without a male air there's no, he would, the house would just fall and his like shady brother wants to take over that's yeah. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:43:13 Yeah. It's um, yeah, the there's a thing it's bad. It's a compelling enough event for what happens next, which is that GRCA decides wedding <laugh> decides to, uh, uh, hold a knife at quacks throat. Um, always the best way to get married with a knife at your throat.
Speaker 1 00:43:32 I mean, I would let girl come marry me. If she had a knife at my throat, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2 00:43:37 Yeah. You wouldn't kick her outta bed for having a knife at your throat.
Speaker 1 00:43:41 I w I wouldn't kick her out of the wedding. No,
Speaker 2 00:43:45 <laugh> <laugh>. Um, but it is very good. Yeah. Uh, again, costuming great. Like they've got like these wedding robes. I think we may have seen them before, but like, yeah, it looks great on them.
Speaker 1 00:43:58 It kinda looked like one of the jackets that, um, Daniel Craig wore when I saw him in McBeth last week, cuz they used, uh, but like it was,
Speaker 2 00:44:07 I know if, I dunno if people heard the thud that uh, Elise just dropped that name. Um, but
Speaker 1 00:44:14 I was, I was in the mezzanine, so I wasn't that close to him, but I was close enough. Okay. It was wonderful. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:44:21 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:44:23 But yeah, he wore this like, cause they, this, they, um, had like modern costume. Right. And so he was wearing a, a, um, just a fur coat <laugh> it was very, um, funny.
Speaker 2 00:44:35 Are you aware of the British English phrase or fur coat? No nickers.
Speaker 1 00:44:40 Um, I have not heard that, but he was wearing his pajamas under it, so
Speaker 2 00:44:45 It's unfortunate all mouth and no trousers is another corollary of the same
Speaker 1 00:44:50 Concept. Okay. I've heard that one before, but I don't know that I thought of what it meant.
Speaker 2 00:44:56 <laugh> um, anyway. Yeah. So, uh, surprise wedding at knife point, which is basically grill's attempt to give him that the dodgy brother did we mention the dodgy brother? What was his name?
Speaker 1 00:45:10 Yeah. I said dart Deua apostrophe something
Speaker 2 00:45:15 Or something like that.
Speaker 1 00:45:15 He said the brother wanted, if the brother wanted to take over the house and that he's shady that's
Speaker 2 00:45:21 I'm not sure he even is the brother. Like, I think he claims to be his brother on the stage.
Speaker 1 00:45:26 I think they probably, well, the one guy said that the older guys said that their families had been fighting for like seven generations. Yeah. So they probably aren't like of the same parents.
Speaker 2 00:45:39 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:45:40 But maybe like in the same generation from like the two lines.
Speaker 2 00:45:45 Yes. Yeah. So they, so he's basically trying to take over the house he wants, he wants it. Um, therefore he wants to block this, um, uh, accidental death thing. So if it's an honorable death, the house falls and he can take it over, but she then uses the, some other point of clinging on marriage law, which says that she, that if she Mar basically it seems like someone who kills someone else is entitled to marry their wife and take all their lances. Um,
Speaker 1 00:46:17 Except she is very like, um, what's it called? Dothraki or something.
Speaker 2 00:46:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really good point. Um, but she's based, but the, the nice twist on this is she's using, she's taking advantage of what is pretty clearly a, um, a patriarchal law to manipulate the situation in her. Fafa uh, so as a result, we get a sighting of Galon. Uh, who's amazing. And every, every time, uh, he's doing some sort of reaction shot in this, uh, episode, and there's a lot of them, they're all incredible. They're just, just incredible. I work. Yeah. Um, anyway, <laugh> back to, back to the episode. Garon is Garon is here and he's great. Um, so he basically has to accept the, the law change. You could tell that he sort of knows something dodgy is up, so he's playing along to find out what's going on. Um, so he says, uh, for the time being, whilst we investigate this, the house of Kozac will be known as the house of, cause he doesn't know Clark's name. So he asks qu his name and qu is like qu and he gets the house of quirk
Speaker 1 00:47:32 <laugh> <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:47:34 His delivery is incredible. So the house of quirk, uh, but that gets corrected to the house of qu, um, and they then go back to grill's house and she's like, why are you talking? Just do what I tell you to do. And he's like, okay, what's next? And she's like, I dunno, I haven't thought beyond this. <laugh> I'm making it up as I go along.
Speaker 1 00:47:56 So that scene is where I first was like, oh, this is a romcom. Right. Because prior to now they were like forced together because of this accidental death. And now they're kind of they're in it together. Yes. And like, she's been miss know it all the whole time and now she doesn't know it all and he has to help with his like wily ways. And it just felt so Py and I loved it.
Speaker 2 00:48:21 Yes. Is great. The, the, they, the next section where they're like working together and, um, uh, basically quar realizes that, um, that, um, de gore has been manipulating their assets
Speaker 1 00:48:38 <laugh> yeah. Like, um, devaluing their, um,
Speaker 2 00:48:43 Devaluing their, the land doing deals, basically deliberately making everything, uh, less valuable, less valuable, um, uh, in some way that happens. It doesn't really matter, or it's not important how it happens. It's just that it's financial and underhand and for Regi. And so he can, he can apply his understanding, uh, the finance systems of, uh, of Coronas to, um, to be able to, um, to work out what had happened. And then he can pro present that information back to, um, back to goon and back to the high council about what's going on. And then you get this absolutely incredible scene where you've got like 10 old Clingons looking at a spreadsheet and they're all
Speaker 1 00:49:36 Like, what looks like a PO pilot?
Speaker 2 00:49:38 Well, looks like, like a weird PO pilot and clinging on PO pilot and all of them just look so before old and confused, and it's
Speaker 1 00:49:48 Just parts is just like the asset tabulation on column J
Speaker 2 00:49:52 <laugh> it's so good. And then,
Speaker 1 00:49:55 And like, just, just to, just to like explain Lai and I love spreadsheets. So this was like very exciting for us. We've been like watching, um, all the Jack Ryan films over the last few months and we made like a huge spreadsheet to like, figure out what day worked and like what streaming stations everything was on for our friends. So it's, we love, we love a spreadsheet.
Speaker 2 00:50:17 I mean, and this is a basic spreadsheet, right? They're not, he's not even getting into an index match scenario that to truly blow their mind. But, um, their, their expressions are great.
Speaker 1 00:50:28 I just like the basic, like assets equal, like, you know, capital minus liability or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:50:34 Simple, basic spreadsheet equations.
Speaker 1 00:50:37 It's like accounting
Speaker 2 00:50:38 Auto autofill down to the bottom. Maybe there's an error in it somewhere, but, um, what is the, sorry, now we're going off on one. What is the Farge name for Excel?
Speaker 1 00:50:49 Oh my God.
Speaker 2 00:50:50 Is it just like rules, like rules of acquisition or is it
Speaker 1 00:50:54 No, hold on. Hold on. Okay. Cuz you think of Excel excellence
Speaker 2 00:50:59 And it's also like X with a Excel cuz there's lots
Speaker 1 00:51:02 Of cells. Yes. Oh, I a number.
Speaker 2 00:51:05 I mean, I, you just thought of that. It might not be true
Speaker 1 00:51:07 <laugh> today. I learned, um, I wanna like put the word latinum in there somewhere. Yes I can't. Yeah. I don't know. It's gonna take me
Speaker 2 00:51:16 A while. It's not XLA that's that's not
Speaker 1 00:51:18 Right. No, that's that sounds horrible. No, I'm just kidding. Um, I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:51:24 I dunno. Acquisitions or something. Yeah. Anyway, to be continued and another to be continued feature where we work out the diff the different names for Excel in every, uh, every world into Trek <laugh> oh my God. But the, um,
Speaker 1 00:51:40 The Gorner just like, fuck this shit.
Speaker 2 00:51:42 Yeah. Yeah. Quite, um, and Garon does this just incredible, like he's basically like, okay, my brain is broken. I know something's wrong. I am not prepared to spend any more of my brain in understanding why it's wrong. That is someone else's problem. And he just tosses this, uh, tosses it away with this just incredible flick, uh, of his hand. And it, it, remind it again, you just look at it and go, how many takes did they do of this scene? Because I think every actor in that scene is absolutely losing it all all the time. Um, and um, it really reminds me, I dunno if you've seen, uh, Dr. Horrible sing along musical.
Speaker 1 00:52:23 I have not.
Speaker 2 00:52:23 Okay. It's a it's
Speaker 1 00:52:25 That was the I'm familiar with its existence and that's
Speaker 2 00:52:29 Got it. Okay. There, there's a scene in one of the episodes where, um, captain hammer as played by, uh, Nathan Fillon is, uh, who always has really big gloves on, um, he's, uh, standing at a Lecter, uh, reading out from some cue cards and he starts, starts reading. Um, and, uh, and <laugh>, he just gets frustrated with reading them and he just goes, I don't need tiny, cute guards. So just throw some away, flick them <laugh> it reminded me of that in the same sort of way. Well,
Speaker 1 00:53:00 That's
Speaker 2 00:53:01 Funny. And you've also got qu just walking around, like really like, uh, enjoying himself he's he's flicking his, his little Rowe thing. So he is got this sort of like, it's not a full cloak cause it's like, his arms are free. I don't know. Don't the dunno, the true fashion term for this. Uh, but he's like, he's SW he's sort of like, like
Speaker 1 00:53:21 Some sort of type of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:53:23 Well, you know, cuz he's just got, it's just like straight down, um, his, his body. Um, and it's separate, uh, I dunno. And there's no arms to it. I know anyway, I dunno what it's called, but, but qu is working it and he is flowing it out <laugh> and he is being cocky about the whole thing. And of course he hasn't thought this true because what happens if you threaten someone's honor in cling on, is, is they declare a jewel on you?
Speaker 1 00:53:52 <laugh> yes. And it, it reminded me of, um, the 2004 Republican national convention, um, on MSNBC. So it was that just for some background, Zelle Miller was allegedly a, uh, Democrat. Um, he was, I don't remember if he was speaking or supporting the Republican, uh, or the Bush or whatever. And he, and like Chris Matthews who I fucking hate, um, was asking him and I don't. So I basically don't like any of these people, um, was like asking
Speaker 2 00:54:23 Him question journalists and politicians in the us and he don't take them. Yeah. Shocking.
Speaker 1 00:54:28 Um, exactly. And then, um, yeah, he, he like pissed off Z Miller and Zel Miller was like, and keep in mind folks, I watched this live on TV, this like really happened. And then I have to put it on YouTube cuz it's ridiculous. Um, Zelle Miller was like, I wish we lived in the time when I could challenge you to a dual or something like that. And I just lost my shit. So anytime anyone challenges anyone to a dual in anything I'm watching, regardless of like if it's Outlander or D space nine, both Ronald D. Moore properties.
Speaker 2 00:55:02 Sure. True, true, true.
Speaker 1 00:55:03 I think of Zel Miller and Chris Matthews.
Speaker 2 00:55:07 Yeah. It's not quite up to the level of, um, is it a DMA challenges Hilo to in the boxing ring? That's great.
Speaker 1 00:55:16 Great.
Speaker 2 00:55:16 That's great.
Speaker 1 00:55:17 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:55:18 I, I would've preferred it if he did. If, if, um, Clingons had to pick up a glove and slap someone across the face <laugh> but no, they can just say jewel. It's a jewel my honor. And um, yeah. And then
Speaker 1 00:55:34 Jewel, I very much in, I very much enjoyed the couple of seconds that cor head about with, in his hands. Yes. Um, I was like, oh my God, my boys about to get murdered, but then he drops it and outsmarts them.
Speaker 2 00:55:48 Yeah. He just plays it. Absolutely. He plays it. He plays basically the only hand he had. Well, the there's the other thing that, that we missed out is that actually he tries to leave because cuz Rob's there as well for oh right.
Speaker 1 00:56:02 Reasons. The news that he actually didn't die in an honorable
Speaker 2 00:56:06 Yeah. Way. And um, so basically qu is like, this is ridiculous. I will die. I'm we've gotta flee. We've gotta run away and gr care, um, finds him trying to leave and basically is just, you know, she, it is, is what she expected in. This is absolutely part of your romantic comedy because it looks like, um, he's gonna betray horror or run away and yep. She just expresses that she's not, she's not angry. She's just disappointed. And um, exactly. And he just goes, God dam it. <laugh> basically. And RO just looks at him with puppy, dog ice. And he is like, God darn <laugh> okay. I have to go <laugh> I have to go. So he goes back into the council chamber and, and he's a hundred percent right. In what he says, which is they, they have but left against each other and, and quote, just throws it on the floor and goes, this is not a, a jewel, this is an execution. I have no training. I am a referring. You have lived this life for 40 years as a warrior. Right. This is not, this is not, there's no honor in this because there isn't any honor in it and I'm gonna make you face and confront the fact that there's no honor in this. And, and he does so with bravery basically, you know, he could
Speaker 1 00:57:26 Yeah. Cause he, he could have easily just gotten murdered at that point. Well,
Speaker 2 00:57:30 He could have gotten murdered or he could have just gone. Right. He could have gone. I don't care about the guilt. My own skin matters more to me. Right.
Speaker 1 00:57:37 He could have kept going. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:57:38 And that's, that's the difference between qu and a lot of the other Clingons is that he's actually, when push comes to the freak, you mean? Sorry. Yeah. What did I say? The Clingons yeah. Um, he, he actually is brave when, when in his own way, when it comes to it, um, and he
Speaker 1 00:57:55 Cares about people.
Speaker 2 00:57:56 Yeah. And he also is able to recognize what is honor and what isn't honor. And what is, what is, uh, a facade for honor. And, and when the, when the Clingons are using that facade and, and you could tell that all the council are prepared to go along with it until they are, until they're called on it. And then they go, yes, it's not honorable. We know it's not honorable. We would've led it happen, but when we're forced to confront it, we, we know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:58:25 You're not gonna embarrass all of us.
Speaker 2 00:58:27 Yeah. So, um, yeah, so he throws it away. DEO basically said, well, I'll kill you anyway. And GA
Speaker 1 00:58:34 Basically like, fuck you, bye.
Speaker 2 00:58:37 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, because DEO isn't honorable and um, and Gaon stops him and realizes exact, he, as I said, I think Gar always knew something shady was going on and yeah, he he's prepared to let it play out because he's a politician until he's forced, forced to engage. And um, yeah. And, and he says, uh, he says something like, who'd have thought it, uh, an honorable Enge or a brave ringy or something like that. Yeah. So this all goes to confirm my a hundred percent accurate theory that Clark is a better cling on the whaf
Speaker 1 00:59:14 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:59:15 Because he actually understands honor truly understands it and understands when it's not there. And when it is there and he knows what to do when he's, when push comes to shove rather than slightly overperforming it. And actually not being any fun whatsoever. Clark is fun and honorable Wolf is yeah. Performatively honorable and not much fun.
Speaker 1 00:59:38 I love morph
Speaker 2 00:59:40 <laugh> I mean, I'm absolutely. We
Speaker 1 00:59:41 Have more to say later.
Speaker 2 00:59:43 I'm absolutely shit posting here. <laugh> live on clearly.
Speaker 1 00:59:47 <laugh> um, yeah. We'll, we'll get to Wharf when we get to whaf no. I agree with you about though.
Speaker 2 00:59:57 So, um, so, uh, Garon decides, okay, there is enough random circumstances here, um, and says to GRCA, you can have the, you can run the house as you choose with or without qu basically, uh, which is cool. Like he does, like, you can tell that he's for all the fact that he still doesn't really like Fe engi. He doesn't really want them around. He gives her the option and he is, he respects the way that Clark behaved and, um, uh, and it's great. And KKA comes up to Clark and says, thank you. I can't can't thank you enough. What, what can I give you? And he says, uh, a divorce, please. No offense <laugh>
Speaker 1 01:00:41 Before we, um, get into how that relates to our next segment. Mm. I have a question for you. Yes. Where does this episode not to put you on the spot, but how does this episode affect your miles? O'Brien theories?
Speaker 2 01:00:58 My miles O'Brien is a nexus being theory.
Speaker 1 01:01:01 Yeah,
Speaker 2 01:01:02 <laugh> it continues to confirm that Mar OBRA is in nexus being, um, apart from the fact that he's because he's this, he is the same in he's slightly dope, slightly unaware of what's going on until forced to confront it by Julian, in fact. Okay. I'm glad you asked me this I've forgotten happens. Happens.
Speaker 1 01:01:22 Don't forget anything. No, that's not true. I forget a lot of things.
Speaker 2 01:01:25 <laugh> so, so in, um, uh, in the mirror episode, he, um, he's basically just keeping his head down, not paying attention to the bigger picture of what's going on until he's forced by Julian to confront the reality of it. And as a result, he acts and makes changes and it improves in this episode. He's not really clear on the actual root cause of what's going on. He's been keeping his head down. He hasn't been noticing the signs and the way, and then he's forced by initially, um, KCO decision to close the close the school, but then by Julian to confront what's going on, he acts on it a bit more decisively and he's um, and he improves things for the better. So in the mirror universe, everyone is a bad version of themselves. It's not just a, you're in a different universe and you and someone made one decision differently. And this just affected you. Everyone is a bad version of themselves apart from miles O'Brien, who is the same being in every universe. <laugh>
Speaker 1 01:02:30 I love it.
Speaker 2 01:02:32 Um, I, I completely forgotten. I, uh, came up with that a to nonsense. So thank you for allowing me to reminded me about it and double down.
Speaker 1 01:02:41 I remember I'll be honest. I remembered about 10 minutes ago. <laugh> so I like held onto it. Nice. So we were done with the quirk part.
Speaker 2 01:02:51 Very nice. Very nice.
Speaker 1 01:02:53 So are you feeling a little thirsty?
Speaker 2 01:02:56 I am. I am.
Speaker 1 01:02:57 That's great. <laugh> I don't do this part as good as Matt does. <laugh> um, something, something all tell water, thirst, quer.
Speaker 2 01:03:07 Uh, yeah, as you said at the beginning, this is extremely horny episode. There is at least three, uh, people, um, who hook up in some way in this. Yes. So KCO KCO and miles. Absolutely. He he's making her a dinner. She comes up is so impressed and so charmed by him and they absolutely let that food go cold. Who knows what? Oh, totally. Whether they, and then subsequently eat it in bed together is my, my head came yeah. On that.
Speaker 1 01:03:35 Yeah. No, I I'm I'm with you on that until he had to go to work the next day and he got sad again. Yeah. Or like was sad the whole time cuz you know yeah. Things don't just get fixed with the dinner. Yeah. Um, more, more totally hooked up. Right?
Speaker 2 01:03:51 Yeah. So mourn leaves. So that, that, that initial incident before Clark, uh, causes a pulled open yeah. In the cold open, he, uh, he basically leaves with, um, a DBA girl I guess is normally that with mourn isn't it? So yeah. Mourn was absolutely hooked up a hundred percent agree. Um, but then most importantly we have multiple instances of gr and gr and qu being incredibly hot together.
Speaker 1 01:04:21 Yes. Um, I'm just gonna go for like the most, the highest level first girl cut. So when quirk asks for the divorce and she's basically like, okay, I'll give it to you right now. She slaps him across the face and then spits on him. That awoken things in me, I was so into her, bossing him around the whole episode, like girl, call me.
Speaker 2 01:04:48 Yeah, it's incredibly hot. And then, then she, but then she properly gives him a, a true kiss, loves, loves, true kiss. And uh, and um, that was a good kiss too. It was a great kiss and then says Kala clock. And, and he just goes, Kala, you too. <laugh> pretty much. Um, but there's, there's another great scene. Uh, yes. Which he also noted, which I had down as well. Yeah. Um, earlier where, when he's worked out the finances, when he's done his, um, Latin spreadsheet, whatever we call.
Speaker 1 01:05:24 Yeah. I could prove everything.
Speaker 2 01:05:26 I could prove everything. Um, she's a <laugh> um, they just do a closeup of the two of them and they're both very happy and it, again, wonderful piece of writing wonderful performance, which is that, um, with you don't know that anything's happened. Um, and she says, I really am very grateful for all you Don qu, that is why I'm going to like to take your hand off my thigh instead of shattering every bone in your body. And then they both, she's
Speaker 1 01:05:55 Smiling the whole
Speaker 2 01:05:56 Time, the whole time. And you don't know that it's happened. And it is really well performed and they both start laughing and he's got a slight KLE and then, um, he like lifts his hand straight up and then takes his other hand and moves his hand away. It's just an incredible choice.
Speaker 1 01:06:17 Like I'm doing it. Yeah. Don't don't hurt me.
Speaker 2 01:06:20 Yeah. Podcasting is a, is a visual medium, as we all know. So you can't see us doing that, but um, it's,
Speaker 1 01:06:28 It's hopefully you watch the episode.
Speaker 2 01:06:29 Yeah. It's such a good, um, it's such a good little bit. And then they go and let's go to the council
Speaker 1 01:06:36 And, uh, Mary Kay Adams said that, that, that scene with the hand thing was actually really fun for them. So they had a really good laugh, um, doing that scene. Like they were both thinking, it was very funny.
Speaker 2 01:06:48 And it's a great example of like, you don't need to show that, like you, I
Speaker 1 01:06:53 Was just gonna say the same thing. Like you can have a, someone be a creep without like the actor having to touch the other person. Like, I just think you don't need to see, this is the kind of show you don't need to see that yeah. Happening at all.
Speaker 2 01:07:07 You know what folks like yeah. Is, is completely consistent with his character. Yeah. It's a bit icky, but we like him and we like him in this episode. We don't need to see him actually doing that in order for it to happen.
Speaker 1 01:07:20 Yeah, for
Speaker 2 01:07:20 Sure. So, yeah. Yeah. I, um, uh, Real's incredible. Yes.
Speaker 1 01:07:26 It's so funny. I was related to that real quick. Like I, I re-watched the Philadelphia story yesterday. I don't know if you've seen that.
Speaker 2 01:07:34 I have not,
Speaker 1 01:07:35 Oh, I will. I will change that.
Speaker 2 01:07:38 Um,
Speaker 1 01:07:39 But like, there's a,
Speaker 2 01:07:40 If anyone else wants to know that, uh, Ali's holding up a dagger to my throat, she's just about to slap me across the face and spit in me and make me watch the Philadelphia story, which is film. I have no idea what it's about, whether that is an appropriate joke to make or not.
Speaker 1 01:07:57 I mean, there's some, some socking in that, uh, in that, uh, okay. In that, uh, movie anyway, there's this one character that's like, you know, he's a pincher. Right. And like, it kinda like he's a, he's very Pery but he's also one of my favorite characters in the movie.
Speaker 2 01:08:16 Right.
Speaker 1 01:08:17 So pro problem, like Clark reminds me of uncle Willy
Speaker 2 01:08:22 <laugh> problematic faves uncle Willy is an unfortunate, unfortunate character name as well.
Speaker 1 01:08:28 <laugh> and they call him uncle Willy the whole time.
Speaker 2 01:08:32 Wow. It's
Speaker 1 01:08:32 Incredible. I really, yeah. We're, I'll make you watch this movie. It's my favorite movie. So we don't have choice.
Speaker 2 01:08:39 <laugh> great.
Speaker 1 01:08:41 All right. Do you have any other, um, thirst, quenching thoughts?
Speaker 2 01:08:45 Just yeah. As you say everything about gr is incredible and um, she's one, like what, uh, what an impact for a guest character to make? I don't know. There's been an awful lot of guest stars on the show and up to, up to this point, and I don't know a single one, who's a one episode. I know she comes back later, but who's a one episode character who is so impactful.
Speaker 1 01:09:13 Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:09:14 In terms of the presence they make. I I'm trying to think if there are any, and I can't think
Speaker 1 01:09:18 Me well, cause I I've mentioned this before on the show, like, I'm kind of like one of those people where if I'm watching this show and someone something or something happens once I may not even remember it. And like, even like the episode where they get the defiant, I mentioned, um, this is a couple episodes ago. I mentioned when Matt and I were recording, how the first time I watched it, everyone's like, what do you think about the defiant? And I was like, I didn't know. I was supposed to care about that. <laugh> <laugh> so, um, like my point is, is like girl is something, someone I will re I always remember it always think about, so I I'm agreeing with you. It's, it's something that's stayed with me. Even though this is, this was only the second and third time cuz I watch it twice. Always is the second and third time I've seen this episode and I remembered it in the premise and everything.
Speaker 2 01:10:08 Yeah. Yeah. A as you said, like you don't, you don't often remember the episodes. So for a, what is basically a complete standalone episode.
Speaker 1 01:10:17 Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:10:18 You know, she's made her own impact, so fantastic performance, fantastic writing, fantastic directing, uh, thumbs up all around guys. Good job. Good show. Good. And again, Julian. Good boy. Good boy. Julian. Good
Speaker 1 01:10:33 Boy. What do you, do you have a most star Trek saying of the episode?
Speaker 2 01:10:38 Um, not nothing massively. I guess there's just like there's Clingons and it's and it's about honor is probably yeah.
Speaker 1 01:10:47 Yeah. That's fair. I don't really have a top thing either, but um, I will comment that this might be the pushiest go run's hair had, has ever been
Speaker 2 01:10:59 <laugh> he's still he's he's such an incredible performance. Like this is a man who's like my entire face is covered in this thick prosthetics and makeup. I look nothing like myself. So I, the one thing that looks like myself and is no different is my eyes and my eyes are gonna do a lot of work.
Speaker 1 01:11:21 <laugh> he's such a good eye. He's a good face actor.
Speaker 2 01:11:24 Yeah. Yeah. And we will see more of that later on as well. Yes.
Speaker 1 01:11:28 Yeah. This is one of many, the chiefs face nine Cleon episodes are, are very good. Am I happy you?
Speaker 2 01:11:34 I agreed a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 01:11:36 Well thank you for joining me today. This has been wonderful. Do you want to tell everyone where they can find you online?
Speaker 2 01:11:44 Uh, you can find me at Matt hu uh, on Twitter and let both come back soon. Matt don't make me do this again. You're better at it than me. Um, I I'm much HAPPI as a guest. Uh, I am on Twitter at MENA Englishman.
Speaker 1 01:12:01 Uh, and you can find me on Twitter and letter box at Elise underscore 10 E L I S E underscore T E N D. I you can find Matt and me together on Twitter. You can find Matt me together on Twitter and Instagram pod rates. You can also email us at pod rates, gmail.com. Please remember to rate and review us on the pod catching system of your choice. And thank you again to Dday empirical for our Stiller theme song until next time, computer and program.
Speaker 2 01:12:31 Bye.
